Curse

Belonah15 · Apr 27, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Melonni is finally able to do her job rather than keep running away from AoE attacks and healing herself constantly.

You have not tried Tahlkora? IMO she is the most useless hero of the lot. She will constantly use self heals to the detriment of the team. Perhaps she would be best as a running tank - a Mo/R with superior runes and running skills. Then kill the mobs while they distracted trying to catch her.

edit: I tried my own suggestion. Gave her [Escape] and [Dodge] and set her to evade mode. Then planted her flag close to a mob of raptors. It was funny watching them trying to kill her.

shru · Apr 27, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marverick

Try

[skill]Expert's Dexterity[/skill][skill]"Save Yourselves!"[/skill][skill]Triple Shot[/skill][skill]Body Shot[/skill][skill]Dwarven Stability[/skill][skill]Lightning Reflexes[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice![/skill]

16 Expertise, 13 Marks

At 16 the energy cost is 9, 6 with a zealous bow. Body Shot is a net +5 energy gain as long as someone else in the party can supply cracked armor (stick [skill]Weaken Armor[/skill] on someone). So basically you can spam the two skills back to back with only a minor pause to recast Expert's Dexterity.

TBH, expert's Dexterity isn't worth it when you can buff your entire team with [infuriating heat].
This build is just so much more effective both in maintaining SY, and outputing high damage on a group wide basis.[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12 expertise=12][distracting shot][save yourselves][triple shot][dual shot][rapid fire][ebon battle standard of honor][infuriating heat][resurrection signet][/build]After a week of tweaking and input from people here and guildies online, I can say that there's nothing more effecient for a ranger to take.

Antithesis · Apr 28, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12 expertise=12][distracting shot][save yourselves][triple shot][dual shot][rapid fire][ebon battle standard of honor][infuriating heat][resurrection signet][/build]After a week of tweaking and input from people here and guildies online, I can say that there's nothing more effecient for a ranger to take.

Nice build Shru. With IH, do you need [[dark fury] on the D/N?

I tend to swap from Rac's to Sab's depending on what i'm doing. If you're running a Ranger with Sabway (stick with Shru's build with Rac's setup), consider [[for great justice] on the Ranger, [[weapon of fury] on the healer and optionally [[mark of fury] on the SS to open up the elite slot.

shru · Apr 28, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

With IH, do you need [[Dark Fury] on the D/N?

I tend to swap from Rac's to Sab's depending on what i'm doing. If you're running a Ranger with Sabway (stick with Shru's build with Rac's setup), consider [[for great justice] on the Ranger, [[weapon of fury] on the healer and optionally [[mark of fury] on the SS to open up the elite slot.

With [[Infuriating Heat], I haven't found that you need [[dark fury] to maintain SY if you keep a proper cycle on your attack skills (don't use triple shot when you only need 1 adrin to charge SY) and keep your IAS up , but there's no reason not to take it in Rac's set-up as your SY isn't the sole benefactor.
I'm not as inclined to SY spam for sab's trio (it's already so strong defensively, and it lacks the ever important daze thats provided in Rac's build) And I see a lot of problems trying to find a balance between supporting SY spam and keeping to the basics of the build.

Antithesis · Apr 28, 2008, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

With [[Infuriating Heat], I haven't found that you need [[dark fury] to maintain SY if you keep a proper cycle on your attack skills (don't use triple shot when you only need 1 adrin to charge SY) and keep your IAS up , but there's no reason not to take it in Rac's set-up as your SY isn't the sole benefactor.

Agreed. I'm contemplating a N/Rt Orders instead, i've found they have more issues with the DF sac compared to the D/N. D/N's fine but it's fun to experiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I'm not as inclined to SY spam for sab's trio (it's already so strong defensively, and it lacks the ever important daze thats provided in Rac's build) And I see a lot of problems trying to find a balance between supporting SY spam and keeping to the basics of the build.

I'm yet to delve too deeply into my Ranger but i've used WoF successfully to power SY on the other physical classes in Sab's. I'm likely to go BHA to cover Daze, plus Volley etc. The adrenal+energy boost of WoF should help to power the rest of the bar if i head down either the SY or Splinter path. You're right, SY's not needed in Sabway unless you're under heavy pressure, but it's a nice safety blanket in an emergency.

FyrFytr998 · Apr 30, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Ractoh,

Is there anyway to make a listing of X/W "Save Yourself" builds that would synergize with the Hero set up in the first post? Such as Shru's Infuriating Ranger build. Or the D-Slash Warrior?

I think it might help people in other classes looking for something different than Sabway. Although the number of classes able to synergize are limited.

shru · Apr 30, 2008, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

Ractoh,

Is there anyway to make a listing of X/W "Save Yourself" builds that would synergize with the Hero set up in the first post? Such as Shru's Infuriating Ranger build. Or the D-Slash Warrior?

I think it might help people in other classes looking for something different than Sabway. Although the number of classes able to synergize are limited.

I know that warriors, paragons, rangers, assassins, dervishes and even rits and necros can run SY with Racthoh's pretty well. I can post a few builds if he doesn't already have them and wants to sticky them to the front page.

War My Guild · Apr 30, 2008, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Arg... I've thought about it alot and I've concluded that a Monk player can simply not run this build at all. Adrenline skills + Monk Primary = Fail. If anyone has a Mo/W build that goes well with these paragons(derv too!), then please post.

However, my Ritualist is working on survivor. Once she's done, I plan to take her through all campaigns and eventually do some HM missions or vanquishing. I've thought about it and I'd like to ask if there's any Rt/W builds that also work? I was thinking something that mashes weapon spells like weapon of fury(50% more adrenline is the main benefit) and weapons spells that do blind or cracked armor. Suggestions?

Paragons are so cool... Wish I had a real reason to use them on my Monk.

FyrFytr998 · Apr 30, 2008, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I know that warriors, paragons, rangers, assassins, dervishes and even rits and necros can run SY with Racthoh's pretty well. I can post a few builds if he doesn't already have them and wants to sticky them to the front page.

That would be awesome as well as appreciated. I hope Rac does this.

Racthoh · Apr 30, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

I have no problem adding templates to the first post if it makes it easier for others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

However, my Ritualist is working on survivor. Once she's done, I plan to take her through all campaigns and eventually do some HM missions or vanquishing. I've thought about it and I'd like to ask if there's any Rt/W builds that also work? I was thinking something that mashes weapon spells like weapon of fury(50% more adrenline is the main benefit) and weapons spells that do blind or cracked armor. Suggestions?

Maybe work something with Spirit's Strength? Not quite sure how well it would work with a melee weapon in PvE with the whole 60 AL part.

blurmedia · Apr 30, 2008, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Maybe work something with Spirit's Strength? Not quite sure how well it would work with a melee weapon in PvE with the whole 60 AL part.

Protip: Spears. An extra 8 armor from a shield is a nice boost too.

shru · Apr 30, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by blurmedia

Protip: Spears. An extra 8 armor from a shield is a nice boost too.

Sorry, but to go SY spammer on a rit requires the use of a /w secondary, and if you're trying for a good damage build like Racthoh is, a spear isn't going to help you much when you can't spec into it. Anyways, sword and axes allow use of a shield, so he has no problem there, but still, a AL60 on the frontlines tends not to be the greatest idea ever, especialy when you're spamming "SY" and taking the brunt of the aggro for it.

Sethellington · Apr 30, 2008, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

I know that warriors, paragons, rangers, assassins, dervishes and even rits and necros can run SY with Racthoh's pretty well. I can post a few builds if he doesn't already have them and wants to sticky them to the front page.

I would LOVE to see that necro SY! build. I really can't think how to run SY! on a nec. I'd love to be able to though. Please post this. Thanks.

DarkSpirit · Apr 30, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by blurmedia

Protip: Spears. An extra 8 armor from a shield is a nice boost too.

These skills can be useful on a Spirit's Strength build: [[Great Dwarf Armor], [[Weapon of Aggression], or [[Vital Weapon], [[Asuran Scan], [[Sight Beyond Sight].

60AL (base) + 8AL (shield) + 15 AL (Ghostforge insignias) + 24 (great dwarf armor) = 107 AL

Problem. · Apr 30, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

Arg... I've thought about it alot and I've concluded that a Monk player can simply not run this build at all. Adrenline skills + Monk Primary = Fail. If anyone has a Mo/W build that goes well with these paragons(derv too!), then please post.

However, my Ritualist is working on survivor. Once she's done, I plan to take her through all campaigns and eventually do some HM missions or vanquishing. I've thought about it and I'd like to ask if there's any Rt/W builds that also work? I was thinking something that mashes weapon spells like weapon of fury(50% more adrenline is the main benefit) and weapons spells that do blind or cracked armor. Suggestions?

Paragons are so cool... Wish I had a real reason to use them on my Monk.

I've been thinking of ways to emulate this build, because I too am on a Monk primary. I have found ways, but it requires 2 humans, and the rest heroes. It ends up becoming a mixture of this and necroway.

However, even though a Monk primary will not be able to achieve the same amount of damage reduction as the 100 Armor provided from save yourselves (which is approximately 3/16's normal damage or a 81.25% damage reduction), a Monk primary will be able to use Life Barrier, and depending on your spec, achieve 48%-52% damage reduction.

However, it will most likely be impossible to bring TNTF because it costs 15 energy, and for its duration, it will be highly inefficient. So instead, it may be viable to bring Ebon Battle Standard of Courage for extra damage reduction, or if you feel it isn't necessary, you can stay with the Ebon Battle Standard of Honor.

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Life Barrier" pro=12+1+1 div=10+1 ins=8 desc=""][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Heaven's Delight][Divine Healing][Protective Spirit][Life Barrier][Mantra of Inscriptions][Blessed Signet][Ether Signet][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Life Barrier" pro=12+1+1 div=10+1 ins=8 desc=""][Ebon Battle Standard of Courage][Heaven's Delight][Divine Healing][Protective Spirit][Life Barrier][Mantra of Inscriptions][Blessed Signet][Ether Signet][/build]

So I just came up with those bars. I'm not sure if they would work or not as I haven't experimented in-game with it yet, but if and when I do attempt, it would be something along those lines. Of course, unlike SY and TNTF, you are prone to enchant removal.

*edit* redid math, i dunno why i was using 3/8 instead of 3/16
*edit2* if prot spirit isn't needed, and that indeed becomres a free slot, i'd most likely opt for either both standards or pain inverter

Racthoh · Apr 30, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Problem.

However, even though a Monk primary will not be able to achieve the same amount of damage reduction as the 100 Armor provided from save yourselves (which is approximately 3/8's normal damage or a 62.5% damage reduction), a Monk primary will be able to use Life Barrier, and depending on your spec, achieve 48%-52% damage reduction.

Wiki says +100 AL would be 82.32%. Every 40 AL reduces damage by about half so that number looks more realistic.

Quote:

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Life Barrier" pro=12+1+1 div=10+1 ins=8 desc=""][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][Heaven's Delight][Divine Healing][Protective Spirit][Life Barrier][Mantra of Inscriptions][Blessed Signet][Ether Signet][/build]

[build prof=Mo/Me name="Life Barrier" pro=12+1+1 div=10+1 ins=8 desc=""][Ebon Battle Standard of Courage][Heaven's Delight][Divine Healing][Protective Spirit][Life Barrier][Mantra of Inscriptions][Blessed Signet][Ether Signet][/build]

I would probably run Aegis over Protective Spirit. With barrier reducing all damage by half, a benefit that SY doesn't have, it will be harder to reach that 10% max from most enemies.

War My Guild · May 01, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Interesting idea, Problem, but I won't have access to another human player. I'd prefer to run these builds with a solo human(me obviously

). I tend to find human players a little on the noobish side and of course there's the issue of playing at the same time.

I like what DarkSpirit posted. I have a Rt/A build that uses pretty much what he posted. Dagger mastery skills + weapon spells = an actually pretty good rit tank.

The problem is that the build might not have enough adrenline for SY!, which is the most important part. Also, what weapon should I hold while I'm running an Rt/A weapon spell SY build? Daggers for fast adrenline?

- Tain - · May 01, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

I like what DarkSpirit posted. I have a Rt/A build that uses pretty much what he posted. Dagger mastery skills + weapon spells = an actually pretty good rit tank.

The problem is that the build might not have enough adrenline for SY!, which is the most important part. Also, what weapon should I hold while I'm running an Rt/A weapon spell SY build? Daggers for fast adrenline?

You'd have to be Rt/W to have access to "SY!".

War My Guild · May 01, 2008, 03:21 AM // 03:21

I know, I was just saying how Rt weapon spells run well on a tank.

Perhaps Rt/W, with For Great Justice, SY!, Spirit's Strength, Great Dwarf Armor, Vital Weap, Weapon of aggression and maybe chuck in some more PvE skills, like as said, Asuran Scan or You move like a dwarf. The only problem is that I'm going to have to farm alot to get a good rank to use those PvE skills. Deldrimor rank won't be too hard, but Asuran and Norn could be a real pain.

Problem. · May 01, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

Interesting idea, Problem, but I won't have access to another human player. I'd prefer to run these builds with a solo human(me obviously

). I tend to find human players a little on the noobish side and of course there's the issue of playing at the same time.

I like what DarkSpirit posted. I have a Rt/A build that uses pretty much what he posted. Dagger mastery skills + weapon spells = an actually pretty good rit tank.

The problem is that the build might not have enough adrenline for SY!, which is the most important part. Also, what weapon should I hold while I'm running an Rt/A weapon spell SY build? Daggers for fast adrenline?

I should have made myself clear. When i run with another human, I use a WoH bar. I came up with the Life Barrier thing if you wanted to try H/H. I'm thinking the Life Barrier, 2 Paras, and whatever orders spammer you choose accompanied by the Motivation para, 2 monk healers, and w/e else you choose should be able to hold up against anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by War My Guild

The only problem is that I'm going to have to farm alot to get a good rank to use those PvE skills. Deldrimor rank won't be too hard, but Asuran and Norn could be a real pain.

hardmode mission handbooks.

*edit*
after some thought, ive come to the conclusion that it would probably be best to run a n/rt orders dude with this

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

\[build name="SY Ranger" prof=R/W marksmanship=12 expertise=12][distracting shot][save yourselves][triple shot][dual shot][rapid fire][ebon battle standard of honor][infuriating heat][resurrection signet][/build]

and since you dont need dark fury, it would be possible to run Order of the Vampire instead of Order of Pain, and then you have a free slot where dark fury was. OoV may make up for some of the party healing lost from the D/N

also personally, i tend to stick with the n/rt cause i like to splinter rape pve.